Legalize marijuana
This is one area I break with fellow conservatives. I believe in the complete legalization of marijuana, with the same laws and restrictions of cigarettes, except for one. I really think it should only be smoked in a private residence, not in public at all except for wilderness areas.
The Zombieslayer family does not smoke pot. I'm highly against it for myself as is my wife because we're anti-drug. Yeah, I know, you're thinking I drink alcohol, but I'll explain in a later post why alcohol is good for you if you're not an alcoholic. In fact, I'm so anti-drug that when I had my wisdom teeth pulled, I didn't let them put me out and I took one single Vicadin. I hated the feeling of not feeling, so I disposed of the rest of the bottle. I'd rather have the pain than not feel anything. Not feeling anything freaked me out.
That said, if you're an adult and you smoke it, that's your business. It doesn't affect me. Meth freaks affect me. They're annoying, they're dangerous, and they're ugly. They're also bad for the environment. Potheads don't affect me other than they might answer my question a little slower than normal and they might laugh at my weaker jokes, giving me a false read of their humor level.
As you know, I strongly believe in the American principles. I love our Constitution and I also believe in Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Pot may be your choice for Pursuit of Happiness and it's not my place to interfere with it.
Pot doesn't kill people like other drugs. Stoners know they can't drive, so in the rare cases they do drive, they slow down. I still think they should get DUIs, and they should be treated like drunk drivers though.
Over seventy million Americans each year smoke pot. It goes untaxed. This bothers me. It should be taxed and regulated. That would also take the criminal aspect out of pot. Also with pot legal, that would free up police resources to go after murderers, rapists, and meth dealers. I have a thousand things in my mind we could do with that tax money too, and I'm sure you have your ideas.
There are two common arguments against marijuana and I'll refute them both. The first is marijuana is a gateway drug. Every time I've talked to someone who has done coke, they were drunk before they decided to say yes to their first line of coke, not stoned. It's alcohol which is the gateway drug, but once again, I'm very pro-alcohol (unless you're an alcoholic or have religious issues with alcohol obviously). So the gateway drug argument holds no water with me.
The second is that if marijuana would be legal, more people, especially kids, would try it. Well, several studies have shown that kids have an easier time accessing illegal drugs than either cigarettes or alcohol. That's because cigarettes and alcohol are legal, regulated, and controlled. That said, whether legal or illegal, parents need to communicate with their kids about what they should and shouldn't be doing with their bodies.
posted by The Zombieslayer @ 8:03 PM
40 Comments:
Heck yeah! 420! ;)
Bsoholic - I think I told you this story before. But if not, here it is.
I had three Build Engineer jobs before. The very first one, I was doing builds at a Java shop. I had the builds automated, but I'd do some manually.
Well, once, at 4:20 P.M., the build broke. I sent an email to the team that read "The build broke 4:20 P.M. today. What were you guys doing at 4:20 P.M.?"
Only one guy got the joke. Dorks.
I agree, but I think that the government should stay out of it other than enforce it the same as they do cigarettes and booze. Otherwise the cost would be too high and you would still have bootleg growers selling to a black market. Also wherever this stuff was grown for commercial sale would have to be protected like a nuclear missle silo. Can you imagine the people trying to break in to a 400 acre marijuana plantation to steal some?
I used to smoke it alot when I was in high school but I probably wouldn't now though. It made me feel more relaxed around girls, (I had a self esteem issue back then), and it was the only time the lyrics to Yes songs made any sense to me.
The only other concern I have is that it might lead to more people developing lung cancer but with all the crud we pump into our atmosphere today I don't honestly think smoking, whether it is cigarettes or pot, is the only cause of that.
Neal - Yeah, the gov't better not price fix and should stay out of it. Marijuana should be sold for profit by private growers so as not to have a black market. Yes, it should be just like tobacco and unfortunately, pot grows like a weed so it would be too easy to grow and will need to be guarded.
This can be done though. Maybe I don't have the logistics, but I'm sure someone can figure out how to grow a weed and properly defend it from thieves.
As for lung cancer, heh, agreed. Will all the crap that comes out of factories and tailpipes, marijuana would be just another cause of lung cancer, and not the cause.
Thank YOU. Pot wasn't made illegal until AFTER the movie Reefer Madness - which scared white people into thinking that pot turned their sons into violent criminals and their daughters would become harlots and have sex with (gasp) black jazz musicians and mexican immigrants. The first states to criminalize it were (surprise) southwest states on the border with Mexico. Fear is always a tactic with drug policy. Even now - marijuana is coined as the "gateway drug"... It's only a gateway because our current drug education curricula treat all drugs as equally bad, and doesn't teach kids enough about he they're different and how certain ones are much more dangerous.
We're too puritanical here, with sex and drugs.
I really liked this post...I agree with you. A few things that I have been thinking about: I can't believe that you can't drink legally, but you can own a gun and fight in war and vote at 18. Also, if you look at Europe on this issue, they don't put the stigma that we in America do on alcohol, cigs, and drugs...and they have fewer problems with these.
good post! you may find my post today a little interesting...
this is an issue i am torn on. like you, i am anti-drug. i do see the logic behind your arguments. i just worry a little that legalizing it maybe startss us down a road of legalizing all sorts of other drugs. although i do think it should be available medically. if someone is in writhing pain and it is the only thing that gives them relif without horrendous side effects i say, toke up! otherwise i go back and forth.....jury is stillout for me.
Even if it isn't legalized it definitely should not be a schedule one drug, that is ridiculous.
I agree it should be legalized with many of the same restriction as alcohol, however I do think DUI consequences should be strengthened.
When I rule the world drunk drivers will lose their cars.
Losing their licenses clearly isn't motivation enough to stop some people, so as is currently done with drugs, I say seize that sucker!
Laura - It's only a gateway because our current drug education curricula treat all drugs as equally bad
Urgh! One of my pet peeves with the anti-drug crap. That drives me nuts. Pot is in absolutely no way equally bad with meth, or any of the harder drugs. You don't see someone smoke pot then get in a fight. You see it with the other drugs. People also don't drop dead on an overdose of pot.
We're too puritanical here, with sex and drugs.
No argument from me. Good points.
Slade - My parents let us drink in our mid-teens. I actually drank beer to gain weight. My father said beer and milkshakes will put on some weight. I was rail thin.
Funny how it turned out. When everyone else made a big deal out of getting drunk, I restrained myself and didn't really party with alcohol until recently when I had money. I really think the drinking age should be lowered, then it won't be such a big deal.
Lime - Understood. I just see a huge difference between pot and other illegal drugs. Look at it this way, you go to a party and a fight breaks out. Are they drunk or stoned?
Also, how is this idea? We use the taxes from marijuana sales to combat meth dealers. With about 70 million pot users each year, that's all kinds of tax revenue we lose by not taxing it.
I heavily believe in stiffer sentencing on meth dealers. These people destroy so many lives. It also costs us taxpayers million bucks every time a meth lab is abandonded or explodes, which is much more often than people realize.
Logo - Even if it isn't legalized it definitely should not be a schedule one drug, that is ridiculous.
Question for you. What is a schedule one drug? I'm not familiar with that term.
Zombie,
Can't say I've landed on this issue -- certainly tend a bit to the libertarian side in such things, but...
Three things about this:
1. It is important to consider the long-term effects. Hazed out potheads do not make responsible citizens. Maybe we legalize pot, but take away users' voting rights. Of course there a few other voluntary activities that we could list that should result in revoked voting rights as well.
2. I am amazed at how polarizing an issue this is. Not sure I have ever heard anyone speak disinterestedly on marijuana, especially anyone who sounded like they really knew a great deal about the real issues and effects.
Why is this such a loaded issue?
3. I forget what the third thing was.
zombie, like i said, i see all your points. i see the logic. it's more or less that last lil leap for me. although taking logo's suggestion of seriously stiffening the consequences for driving under the influence of both alcohol and pot (if pot were decriminalized) would go a long way in my mind.
i hate to look at it as a purely economical decision in terms of being able to gain tax revenue from it. but i can see where decriminalizing it has the benefits of being able to put less effort into enforcing those laws and being able to redirect the efforts to much mor eserious and destructive issues like meth labs. no arguments there at all.
Well, several studies have shown that kids have an easier time accessing illegal drugs than either cigarettes or alcohol.
That may be, but they certainly don't have a problem getting either kind.
I'd like to see the studies, though. :)
Logo said "Even if it isn't legalized it definitely should not be a schedule one drug,"
Another point I forgot to make = yes, yes, yes.
Sched 1 are drugs that are considered to have no useful or beneficial purpose. This means the FDA cannot even fund studies on the medical efficacy of marijuana or allow for it to have medical uses. Until it is reduced to a controlled substance like prescription drugs, there won't be any medical marijuana research approved by the US government.
I am undecided. I used to think it should be legalised and that was the general feeling in the UK for a while. The police are likely to turn a blind eye to personal use because there was a lot of positive studies with regard to the medical benefits. Recent studies over here have now shown that people are using it with alcohol and then going onto harder drugs. I think public opinion is changing and it is unlikely to be legalised here.
I say legalize pot and make better restrictions on alcohol.
Come on.
We've all been to the stoner parties. Do they ever get broken up by the police? No.
Why not?
Because stoners are paranoid, lazy, tired and at peace with their fellow stoner friends. They are too keyed up on discussing stupid movie trivia than beating each other up or joyriding around.
The drunken jock parties I went to were always broken up, someone always got the snot beat out of them, furniture and jewlery went missing and my girlfriends always slept with people who's names they forgot in the morning.
Like you already said, Z, alcohol is the gateway drug. I drank beer out of a giant, red plastic cup before I ever smoked a joint.
*sigh*
I'm totally with you--smoke in your own home on your own time. The government should control it and make money off it.
It should be regulated and not available to you until you're 21. It shouldn't be socialized like it is elsewhere with their pot-cafes or whatever; that's nonsense.
but you have the right ideas here. Good post.
Why are we even talking about it? Will it ever change?
well, I'm old enough to have legally purchased liquor and beer at 18 years old. 21 makes sense to me, because too many 18 year old die on the roads when you can buy alcohol. I'm amazed I made it through.
I started smoking pot when I was 14 cuz it was a lot easier to get and cost much less to get high on. I stopped smoking pot when I met my wife (I was 23).
I think the legalization/restriction of pot in order to boost tax revenue is not a bad idea, per se. However, the long-term health effects of the stoner lifestyle will probably offset the increased revenue as obseity, diabetes and heart disease rates rise among aging stoners with 40 years in front of the X-box.
My daughter just returned from a semester in Europe. They took the obligatory jaunt to Amsterdam and she informed us she went to a pot cafe and sampled it. She claims to have not been impressed.
And I agree that the drug abuse prevention programs in our country are a sham! I think that I could easily cut down the number of abusers by telling the truth - dope is a blast until you sober up! Dealing with the consequences of abuse are the real bitch. And everyone has to deal with 'em, sooner or later.
i say - legalize it , and tax the shit out of it ... make some money ... and i don't smoke it either...
The other thing, as Sadie and others eluded to, is that there are very few people who smoke pot who are actual "pot-heads" who sit around all day in a daze. Most are occasional, recreational users. More often than not, you'll have people getting baked before watching the Wizard of Oz or something, and get up to go to work the next day and live a responsible life.
This is where we disagree. There are enough studies out there that argue it's carcinogenic properties, as well as its psychologically addictive properties to show it's negative side. Additionally, there is the affected memory. And truthfully one of the reasons it isn't responsible for more murders or car accidents, etc., is simply because it's use isn't as wide spread as alcohol. Yet.
Jesse - too funny.
I don't get why it's so polarizing either. Sure it's not good for you. I'm not saying it is. But eating crap food and laziness do a lot more damage to our economy than pot, so I don't believe in that argument that pot damages society. It does, but not as bad as other things.
I really believe in Freedom of Choice. I'm not in a position to tell a grown man or woman what they should do with their bodies as long as it doesn't affect me. Like I said, meth freaks affect me directly. Potheads don't.
Lime - but i can see where decriminalizing it has the benefits of being able to put less effort into enforcing those laws and being able to redirect the efforts to much mor eserious and destructive issues like meth labs.
This is really big in my decision. I think pot and meth are night and day.
Miranda - I would too. I spent about twenty minutes looking for them yesterday and all I got were biased gov't studies that had a strong anti-drug slant. I've actually seen them from t.v. Wish I could quote some source. I hope that doesn't diminish your stance of me as a journalist. :(
If I can find the studies tonight, I'll do an update to this post.
Laura - That whole Sched 1 thing bothers me. Penn and Teller's B*llsh*t did an episode on the War on Drugs, and showed people who actually benefitted from marijuana. We have the DVD of it.
Miladysa - Yeah, but then again, it comes down to parenting. We really need to get parents to do their jobs.
I've already had the drug talks with Junior. They weren't just talks, but I showed them up close and personal meth freaks, alcoholics, heroin junkies, etc. He sees them and doesn't want to end up like that.
They hang out in downtown Chico and just look stupid the whole day, doing nothing, accomplishing nothing. It's exactly what Junior doesn't want to be.
Sadie - They are too keyed up on discussing stupid movie trivia than beating each other up or joyriding around.
You're too funny. :)
I got a good laugh out of that, mostly because it's true. Never even got in an argument with a stoner.
The drunken jock parties I went to were always broken up, someone always got the snot beat out of them, furniture and jewlery went missing and my girlfriends always slept with people who's names they forgot in the morning.
You just described Chico and just about every other college town in California.
Why are we even talking about it? Will it ever change?
I do hope so. It's time Americans started taking their Founding Father's documents seriously again. Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness is a huge part of our heritage.
Kurt - I'm not going to lie and say pot doesn't have long-term effects if you do it all the time. However, I've known too many adults who do it once a year. That's a heck of a lot safer than cigarettes. Actually, the majority of people who have tried pot are not addicts. Can't say that for meth.
Thom - The funny thing is we don't really have to tax it that much to get revenue from it. Just imagine all that pot being bought and sold going untaxed, then suddenly being taxed. That money could be put to good use.
Laura - Most are occasional, recreational users. More often than not, you'll have people getting baked before watching the Wizard of Oz or something, and get up to go to work the next day and live a responsible life.
Well said. Most people who do pot aren't addicts.
Saurkraut - Well from experience, pot users were a heck of a lot less violent than drunks. I've known several women who have been raped by drunks as well. I don't think stoners can even get it up half the time.
I'm not going to argue that it's not bad for you, but like many have already said, a lot of users use it maybe a few times a year and that's it. It's only addictive to people with weak personalities. The people I've known who were addicted to pot had much more serious issues than pot addiction.
Sorry I was late to the party dude...I was smoking a big fatty...whoah...are you gonna eat that pizza...
There's a long list of people who could really use a toke or two...unfortunately, they tend to be the ones most against legalizing marijuana.
I'm guessing a lot of the wars would be averted if leaders were sitting around talking about things over a bowl.
"Dude...this office doesn't have corners..."
"Yeah..."
"It's kinda oval...like an egg..."
"Eggs are cool... You want an egg? I just gotta call..."
"Dude...that's so cool..."
"Weren't you gonna blow something up?"
"Oh yeah...I forgot..."
"And chips...I should have them send up chips..."
"Duuuuude...chips are awesome..."
Zombie: Yep, I saw that Penn & Teller too. I've also talked with a woman who has MS who is in a wheelchair and who takes marijuana medicinally in the form of brownies (thus nullifying the carcinogen effect). She has been arrested for this. She also says that it helps her with her muscular control so much that she can actually walk for a while after having her brownies.
Shawn - Frito-Lay and Dominos are secretly behind the movement to legalize pot.
Funny stuff there, Shawn. I think we'll have more peace if they passed around the peace pipe. Nice idea.
Laura - Anyone on MS should get as much pot as they want, no questions asked. MS sucks. I wouldn't want to wish MS on anyone, not even someone I really hated with all my available Hate.
Good points. I have given this much thought throughout the years have revised my position a number of times. Way back in the day, I was strictly libertarian on this issue, not just in reference to pot, but all drugs. Suffice it to say that my opinion has matured considerably. Although I still have strong libertarian ideals, I now temper these idealistic beliefs with a strong dose of reality. I am not so naïve as I was 25 years ago - when I was 18!
First let me give you props on your position and your reasoning behind it. Pot is NOT the same as other drugs and is far less harmful then the legal drug alcohol. If it were legal, taxed and regulated, there would be less money spent on enforcement and incarceration, less crime – both directly and ancillary - and combined with regulatory taxed income, much more money to treat all kinds of drug abuse and addiction.
Pot is also not a gateway drug. The vast majority of pot smokers do not use other drugs. If I had to name a gateway drug – defined as the first drug used by hardcore drug users – it would have to be nicotine. That’s right, cigarettes. And lets not forget that nicotine and alcohol are responsible for more deaths than ALL other drugs combined. How do we tell our kids that pot is bad when we say smoking and drinking is not? Where’s the consistency? No, the public service announcements (PSAs) do not speak louder than the law.
I’ll end by opening up another can of worms. In California, we have what is known as The Compassionate Use Act or “medical marijuana.” Although this law was passed by a well-intended electorate - indeed a compassionate electorate, it is a sham and an embarrassment. In my opinion, 90% of those with a “medical recommendation” have no need whatsoever, except the need to not be busted. The way the law is set up, one only needs a doctors recommendation to treat any number of symptoms with pot. There is no prescription, no dosage, no indications.
The law shields those with this recommendation from state and local prosecution of some sales and distribution (dispensaries), possession and use. I know that there are some very well documented medical conditions that pot can help with. I think those suffering from these conditions should have access to anything that eases their suffering. However, the way the law is written and the sporadic nature of application from county to county makes it ripe for abuse and pushes the whole movement of legalization backwards. I say legalize it, tax it and use it – responsibly if you can, if not get help.
Mr. Althouse - Yeah, I've ranged from full Libertarian to realism. I don't think people should be doing meth, heroin, or coke, because those drugs affect us. I also don't think people should be smoking pot and driving or operating machinery. Nor should they be smoking pot on their lunch breaks.
But on weekends in their own home or camping in the middle of nowhere, go for it.
I've known stoners with problems and people who do it a few times a year. there's no way I could punish the latter group. They're completely harmless, and what they do with their bodies is their own business.
As for medical marijuana, there are both cases where folks benefit, like Laura mentioned the MS person, and ones who abuse it. Still, I'm not going to tell an adult what to do if they're not invading my business.
Well Zombie,
I agree with much of your opinion....people ought to be allowed to grow it and smoke it in their own homes. I dont advocate teenagers running around in their cars getting high, they are too scattered to be smoking and driving at the same time. My mom let me smoke pot at home because she didnt want me out driving or smoking in the park. I think that was a wise choice on her behalf. However, I hope that my daughter does not like pot, because it makes you lazy and unmotivated, that is, unless you are at home doing art, painting, cooking or sewing..it's perfect for that! Anyway....Happy HNT, to you !
Barefoot - Good points. My parents let us drink at home, which I guess is equivalent. But as I've said, I didn't really drink heavily until I started working hard after college. Partying is more like a reward. I didn't drink when I was unemployed and underemployed.
ZS, sorry not to return soon enough to answer your Q, but Laura did a good job of explaining it.
It would make research legal and possible, and that would mean a delivery system for MS and glaucoma sufferers that doesn't involve setting things alight.
Logo - They give Ritalin to kids. Have you ever seen the chemical composition of Ritalin? I'm not even a chemist, but it's so close to cocaine, I can't tell the difference. I've even heard that people break up Ritalin pills and snort them and get the same effect.
Now, how is Ritalin any safer than pot? Ritalin is legal, pot is not. I don't get it.
Yep. Ritalin is a big street drug now. As are many prescription drugs. It just goes to show that there are people who will abuse any drug - but they should not be the examples used to dictate law. Otherwise liquor would still be illegal.
Laura - Ritalin is a big street drug now. As are many prescription drugs.
Heh. I'm not surprised.
Zombie,
The Scythians were a people group from Eastern Europe and the steppes of southern Russia. They were basically semi-nomadic horsemen that would sweep down into the Near East and conquer everything in sight whenever the spirit moved. Nobody could take 'em out. Neo-Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians, Hittites, even Alexander the Great. They were this unstoppable force at the north end of the Fertile Crescent.
Herodotus describes their way of life. Apparently, in lieu of bathing, they had this wildly popular sweat lodge ritual. They would build a little sod hut, build a fire in the middle, heat up rocks and then throw this plant called cannibis onto the rocks and inhale the smoke. Herodotus says they enjoyed this greatly.
The thing about the Scythians is, they were always there and nobody could get rid of them. But at the same time, they were an incredible nuisance to all of the civilized societies because they would come in and conquer, plunder, party, but they were never absorbed like other barbarian groups. They could never establish a regime out of what they conquered. They would just wander off and come back a couple decades later to do some more plundering.
Crazy Scythians.
I think the prohibition showed us quite clearly how helpful it is to make a substance illegal.
Unfortunatly the governement makes far too much money off of illegal substances, such as Marijuana, cocaine, heroin, extasy, and on and on for it to be worthwhile legalizing. Its only illegal for us, the 'average' people to manufacture, and sell this stuff. If it truly was illegal then it would be illegal for our 'governments' to make and sell it as well.
Now I am not making such a general claim as to say that all levels of the government are directly gaining from the production of illegal substances, but for instance: the raid into Afganastan was all about the heroin, and another example: the customs officals definitly make money off of Marijuana.. they get paid by the Hells Angels to allow their trucks (full of mary-jane) to cross the border. Who knows how high up that one goes, probably not too high, there is just not as much money in Mary Jane as there is in heroin and cocaine. None the less you get my point.
I am with you in the desire to make marijuana legal, lets fill up those prisons with truly dangerous people, not truly stoned ones.
Another thing... Long time use MIGHT make you hazed out, but that is a BIG maybe. My mother smoked pot for most of my life... it helped her with stress, and she has ALWAYS had a good paying job (which she continually gets raises and promotions at) and supported my whole family on it. She has never been too 'out of it' to help someone in need or to be totally and unfailingly responsible. She has never been a lazy, paranoid, game junky. I am a strong, successful and intelligent person because of my mother, marijuana has never negativly affected my life.
I am offended that someone would suggest limiting a marijuana users voting rights. In that case I think anyone who drinks alcohol should be treated even harsher... what would that mean then?
I lost confidence in a law that can make it totally legal for people to kill themselves (and others) consuming unlimited amounts of alcohol and cigarettes, but end up in jail for smoking reefer.
Its as bad for your health as breathing in wood smoke, or maybe not even... but otherwise, if someone is going to become lazy and sit in front of an X-box all day and get overweight... there are definitly more issues involved then smoking marijuana.
And thats all I have to say about that. ;p
You said you were running for president? Please say yes.
Jesse - Must have been the sweat baths that were making them violent. ;)
By the way, where did you learn history from? You know some obscure stuff.
Clothosfate - Non-violent potheads shouldn't be in prison, period. I'm tired of people killing people and getting ten years because our prisons are full.
Not sure whether or not the gov't makes money off marijuana. Coke and heroin though gives us excuses to do other things in foreign countries, as you said.
Another thing is I've known people who smoke marijuana on a weekly basis for years and no ill effects yet. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's not as bad as the lies our gov't tells us. Good personal examples.
Scott - Congress in about eight years.
I am sick and tired of people going on about legalising pot usage. Asian countries have given their people the message,in OZ severe penalties apply, but in S-pore Th/land & Malaysia the druggies do the rope dance, and our neighbor Indonesia just simply shoot offenders. many dimwitted oz cits suffer penalties of this kind. if they are daft enough to do it; too bad, no sympathy from me. mind you; what ever you do in the states is your affair, but for gawd sake dont stop exporting J D to OZ.
The previous comments seem to indicate that this is nothing more than a whacky bone dome pot smokers convention, a sort of one opinion forum.
It would be doubtful if there are physicians among you, who would be aware of the problems drugs create.
Vest - Heh. It seems we have larger cultural differences than I thought.
Americans believe in doing anything they want as long as it doesn't affect anyone else. If you want to go chop off your fingers, it's your business. Same with drugs. I think most Americans draw the line with the drugs that affect other people.
With pot, only the criminal element really affects other people. Legalize it and you put the dealers out of business. Also, I would stipulate no foreign marijuana. It has to be American grown, so we could get all that tax money. I'm tired of paying more than my fair share of taxes while folks sneaking across the Canadian and Mexican borders are making a bundle doing illegal trading without paying taxes.
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