Monday, January 16, 2006

Legal vs illegal immigrants Part II

I guess I need to do this post more often because my posts on illegal immigration are being seen wrong.

Besides our American Indians, we're all children of immigrants. We get the best of the best from other cultures, and it's a melting pot where we take the best aspects of their cultures and blend them in with our own. Luckily for me, that usually includes food. I love ethnic food.

I'd like to continue getting the best of the best from other countries. I like other cultures, as long as they come here and respect ours.

With legal immigrants, we take what we need. We always welcome top scientists and engineers. We take top talent in a variety of other disciplines as well. When we needed nurses, we took nurses. When we need doctors, we'll get doctors. When we need engineers, we'll take engineers.

We get to screen legal immigrants as well. We don't take drug addicts, terrorists, America haters, criminals, etc.

With illegals, we don't get to check them out. We don't get to choose the cream. Instead, we get other nation's unwanted. Their own nation is glad they're coming here. These are the people who we should be arming to overthrow their corrupt governments. Instead, they come here illegally and the corrupt people in their government gets to enslave their people yet another day.

With illegals, we cannot weed out criminals. We cannot weed out drug addicts. We cannot weed out retards. We get the worst of the worst instead of the best of the best.

I want the best of the best. I want the best for my country. I want the ones who will be creating jobs in the future, not taking the low end ones, undercutting our working classes and contributing to the destruction of the American family farm. I don't care if they're from Afghanistan or Zanzibar. I don't care what continent they're from. I want the best of the best, regardless of their ethnic background, religion, etc.

With legal immigration, we also get a chance to teach American civics. Children of legal immigrants vote. Children of illegal immigrants don't. Do we want a nation of patriotic citizens with ambition, who create jobs, who invent cool things, and who care about their nation? Or do we want to continually undercut the working classes and American family farmers?

It's very simple. Enforce the laws. They're in place. We just need to enforce them. And yes, that includes both punishing heavily corporations who hire illegals and deporting people who come here illegally.


Blogger tenxinchoden said...

WOAH!! first....1st....I....FIRST...heheh

hey ZS... its really really SAD sAD situation... since the day i got married i haven't been able to write somethin worthwhile...hehe... but no complains... love the new life:)

ps: deSSIM uoY & gotta read all that i missed out on

1/17/2006 12:21 AM  
Blogger The Zombieslayer said...

TC - Congradulations! Wow, one day you were keeping an online journal, then you disappeared for several months, and now you're married. :)

I'm glad you're happy. Considering how long you've been gone, some of us here were worried the zombie plague reached Bhutan.

1/17/2006 8:10 AM  
Blogger tshsmom said...

Your last paragraph says it all!

1/17/2006 1:24 PM  
Anonymous jesse said...


Amen! Especially the last paragraph.

Maybe I'm jaded, but I don't have much confidence that this is going to happen any time soon. Americans simply don't have the stomach to do what is necessary until we get hit hard enough that we are forced to deal with the problems at hand. As long as dollars are electronic numbers, the Feds will spend more of them than they take in. As long as the effects of illegal immigration are only broadly realized, we will do nothing about it.

1/17/2006 4:45 PM  
Blogger The Zombieslayer said...

Tshsmom - Thanks. Heh, I had to re-read what I said because I forgot what the last paragraph was.

Jesse - I think a lot of people are in denial that it is a problem, that's one of the big problems. Plus, people are scared of being called "racist." You know what I look like in person, so you know that I have an easier time saying what I just said than someone of a little bit more "fair complexion." It's really bad when Americans are scared of political correctness, so they hide from the truth.

1/17/2006 6:12 PM  
Anonymous geopax said...

Good article on Jan 16 about illegal aliens. This nation is in an economic war with China. In order to win the war we must have a superior technology. This will not happen when 17 nations graduate more scientist than we do. We are 4th in population in the world yet our education system is inferior to Europe and some of Asia. Why do we rank 17th in graduating scientists? Looks at the makeup of our public schools with large numbers of immigrants who do not speak english at home and do not consider education to be important. We spend more money in our public schools on special education than in gifted programs. We need to select our immigrants, and take the very best if we are to stay a leading economic power.

1/17/2006 7:17 PM  
Blogger The Zombieslayer said...

Geopax - We need to select our immigrants, and take the very best if we are to stay a leading economic power.

Very well said. Thanks for coming.

Let's drop all the p.c. crap and think of what is in the best interest of the American peoples. As I've said, I don't care what country they come from, I want what we need.

Are we really now only 17th in graduating scientists? This is horrible! This should be a post in itself.

1/17/2006 7:36 PM  
Blogger United We Lay said...

I agree with your position 100 percent!

1/18/2006 6:39 AM  
Blogger HMT said...

conviction is the important part. Laws exist only to those countries who have the conviction to enforce them.

1/18/2006 7:41 AM  
Blogger Saur♥Kraut said...

Can we get an AMEN! You're dead-on. As you know, my best friend is 100% legal Mexican. She, and I, are in total agreement with this.

1/18/2006 8:49 AM  
Blogger The Zombieslayer said...

Saurkraut - I knew one Mexican-American family that was here before California was even a state.

Glad we agree on this.

HMT - Well said. We need less laws, but to enforce what's on the books. That includes enforcing our immigration laws.

PC - Awesome. I think we've discussed this before.

1/18/2006 8:54 AM  
Blogger Miranda said...

Wonderful post, Slayer. My Grandpa was a Czech who became an American civics teacher. He loved America more than anyone else I've met. I wish

1/18/2006 9:11 AM  
Anonymous jesse said...

Zomm Bie,

You're preaching to the choir, man! I think it is a mixture of those 'democratic' mores and an apathy regarding anything that doesn't have a direct and catastrophic effect on our lives. It is simply not something we REALLY feel we need to deal with, as much as we might have opinions.
Same as balancing the budget, decreasing pork spending, keeping a sharp military, etc.

I have realized since coming to California that everybody here is uber-sensitive about race and racism simply because EVERYBODY is a closet racist, here. On the East Coast either you are a racist or not, and if you are then people just think you are an idiot. You are what you are. Here in SoCal, though, everybody is trying so hard not to be racists, that they all are. They can't just let it go.

Geopax - It is not as much a war as an awkward jr. high dance. We get 'cheap' goods from them, while they use so many resources that demand for resources is increased and gas (therefore transport) prices go up. So it all evens out, but they get to go through their industrial revolution, changing into a burgeoning modern economy with a massive workforce. The payoff for us? Access to a 1.2 billion body consumer market. Maybe. That is where the awkward jr. high part comes in. Nobody really knows what comes next.

As for 17th in scientists, you would need to qualify this with an analysis of quality, etc. In other words, the India will graduate a lot more scientists because they have a lot more people. But, what will those scientists be studying, and where will they go when they have graduated? I don't mind India having 10000 scientists studying the chemical makeup of cow patties, while we have 50 top shelf nuclear physicists.

1/18/2006 9:35 AM  
Blogger Sadie Lou said...

Great post Zombie as per usual!

1/18/2006 10:18 AM  
Blogger Slade said...

I agree mostly...the only part that offended me was "we can't weed out the retards" What exactly do you mean by this, because at first I thought that you meant literally "retarded" but I'm hoping that you meant it as a figure of speech instead.

1/18/2006 11:36 AM  
Blogger Mr. Althouse said...

ZS -

You raise some good points. Indeed, this issue has been a debated for quite some time. I think, however, there is a critical context that must be included before the issue can be fully understood.

That context is time. Early and often in this country's history, immigrants have been outcasts from other countries. Either due to fleeing tyranny and persecution, exportation of criminals or the stealing of those who had no desire to leave their home, most early immigration was not through any screening process at all. And we, as a nation, are richer for it.

However, things are indeed different today. The context has changed. I agree with you in an ideal sense. And I live in California where illegals are a constant political issue. But to fully appreciating how immigration impacts the country can only be done retrospectively. For me, the jury is still out.

That said, I agree in principle that there are a great many social problems associated with illegals. But to blame any one (like the decline of quality in our schools) on illegals solely is a stretch. There are a number of factors involved and in my opinion, illegals and ESL are not the greatest. I also would submit that the social issues directly correlate with fiscal concerns. Again, illegals are not solely responsible.

Although I may not totally agree with it, I respect your opinion, as I do any that is well thought out and sincere. It is a problem of our time (the only contextual element of time we are allowed), and it deserves our attention.


1/18/2006 1:13 PM  
Blogger Mr. Althouse said...

PS: I am with you 100% on holding employers responsible. Their actions not only exacerbate the problem, it also exploits those coming here and gives the whole country a bad rep.

1/18/2006 1:19 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

You do make some good points.
However, on the flip side...
Illegals are escaping a terrible experience to try and attain the American dream. You can't blame'em for that. We'd probably do the same thing if we were in their shoes. Sometimes they risk everything for that goal: To have what we were born with.

In my heart, I want to help them have what my father dreamt of when he moved here ... opportunities.

1/18/2006 2:59 PM  
Blogger The Zombieslayer said...

Miranda - Yes, it's funny how legal immigrants see America as the greatest country in the world, yet American-born folks take it for granted. The immigrants in my family are the same way. They can't stop talking sometimes about how great we have it here, and their kids have no idea.

Jesse - I have realized since coming to California that everybody here is uber-sensitive about race and racism simply because EVERYBODY is a closet racist, here.

This is so true. Californians are p.c. to cover up their insecurities. It's really pathetic.

I do love this state, but I just wish that every time a Californian would tell a lie, their nose would grow. Would make plastic surgeons millionaires overnight. ;)

As for the other issues, I'd talk about them more but I'd bore everyone out of their mind. Pork spending, taxes, energy, etc., are all real big issues, but nobody wants to hear about them until they get affected directly.

Sadie - Thanks. :)

Slade - Don't mean to offend you, but that's how I talk. If I'm working on a car with a friend and we're seeing some jackass put the clamps on wrong, I'd blurt out "Man, whomever did this is a !@#$%^& retard!"

I know I need to clean out my mouth, but believe me, it's night and day to what it was five years ago. I'm trying...

Althouse - Yes, time makes a huge difference. There were times we needed more immigrants and now is a time we don't. It's just a bad coincidence that certain groups are immigrating here.

See, that's what makes me look bad. I notice severe economic problems and say we need to tighten immigration standards and enforce the illegal immigration laws, and people assume I'm racist against the groups that are coming here now, because as I've said, we are mostly a nation of immigrants.

But yes, glad you agree with the point about holding corporations responsible. Corporations love illegals because they work for under minimum wage and if they complain, they get deported. It's downright blackmail.

1/18/2006 2:59 PM  
Blogger The Zombieslayer said...

Joe - I'm well aware of that. That's why I agree with Edward Abbey who said we ought to be handing them a rifle before sending them back and telling them to finish the revolution.

I've had many friends from China and Vietnam in high school. Believe me, I've heard horror stories and really feel bad for their relatives that are there.

Most of them came here illegally (by boat, risked their lives). They're like the biggest American patriots out there, for they know how good they have it first hand.

American people take their freedom for granted. I've said before that Americans need to spend at least a month in another country to realize how good they have it here.

I was a foreign exchange student in Mexico. Beautiful country, nice people, good times, but tons of inequalities.

Americans have no idea just how good we have it.

I think I've said in one of my previous posts that if I were them, I'd be doing the same thing.

That said, we should be helping them make some serious changes in their country. This is especially true with Mexico, which has more proven oil reserves than we do. They have a lot of silver too. Problem is, it's so corrupt that only the rich benefit from it. They have a lot of good farmland too, producing tons of corn, rice, beans, etc. They shouldn't be a poor nation.

If we helped them fix their inequalities, they could have a middle class that rivals ours. I'd really like that to happen. But by allowing all the people escape here instead of making changes in their gov't, we're cheating them, and that hurts both of us long-term.

1/18/2006 3:09 PM  
Blogger Mr. Althouse said...

For what it's worth, I don't think you're a racist.


1/18/2006 3:17 PM  
Anonymous jesse said...


I was just reading how after the Mexican War, the US had the opportunity to actually annex Mexico. We passed up the opportunity. Calhoun and some others argued forcefully that the US was and always should be a white nation and that absorbing the mixed population of Mexico was unacceptabe.

Instead we just took everything north of the Rio Grande.

Lincoln almost ruined his political career by forcefully questioning the basis for that war.

1/18/2006 4:13 PM  
Blogger marcy_peanut said...

Hey zombie--I've got a new post. :)

1/18/2006 5:23 PM  
Blogger neal said...

A couple things. I agree with you for the most part but I don't think we should restrict immigration to only the best and brightest from all over the world.

My wife came over here with me legally but she only has a 5th grade education. She isn't stupid, her family was dirt poor and they could not afford to send her to 'good schools'. She ended up quitting school in the 5th grade to go to work to help pay for food so they could eat. Yet my wife is a genius when it comes to handling our finances and she speaks 4 languages. So how are we to decide who gets to come to America? Are we going to make them take the SAT test as part of the immigration procedures? Also, since this country is a melting pot of people from all over the globe I don't think they would have been considered the best and the brightest. So I disagree with that part of your post.

I do agree that illegals should be sent back, better yet put them on a plane and drop them out with a parachute into Iraq. Let them find their way home from there. I could care less if they don't want to follow legal procedures for entering our country.

I also think that if someone comes into our country they should not be immediately eligible for any social services. Welfare, medicare, food stamps should be for those who have worked and lost their jobs and are in need of a safety net until they get back on their feet. They shouldn't be handed out to anyone who wants to come here for a handout.

I also think that anyone who immigrates, and brings their family, should be willing to follow our laws. If the parents bring their kids and the kids get into drugs or gangs the whole family gets the boot back home.

Also the PC b.s. needs to be tossed out the window. This is America and we speak English here. We are basically a country founded by Christians and anyone who cannot abide by that should not be eligible to reap of the benefits of living here. I don't mind if you wish to practice Islam, Buddhism, or Atheism but don't force your religious or cultural beliefs on the rest of us.

I am all for people who wish to come here and live and work and while they are at it follow our laws. If they can contribute to our society and become citizens that is okay with me. But if they become a burden to our social service systems, if they are criminals to begin with, if they come here and complain about the fact that we don't practice their religion or cultural beliefs then they should either leave or keep their damn mouths shut. What is the old saying? America, love it or leave it? I think that says it all.

Come here legally and contribute to society and I will welcome you with open arms. Come here and become a problem and I will show you the door and I could care less if it hits you in the ass on the way out!

1/18/2006 5:55 PM  
Blogger The Zombieslayer said...

Mr. Althouse - Thanks. :)

Jesse - Now that could have been interesting. With their oil and silver reserves, plus all that excellent farm land, imagine the superpower we'd be today. Plus, it would be the ultimate irony that the superpower we'd be speaks the two languages of the two great colonizers. Yeah, we'd definitely be a bilingual country.

Marcy - Coolness. I'll see yours tonight then. :)

Neal - Very well said. Best and the brighest is a saying. It is the smartest + what we need.

As for America, love it or leave it, I think it does need to be said. We were having a talk about this the other night how Americans don't understand how lucky they are. I think all Americans need to leave their country for at least a month at a time. One can be a foreign exchange student if they have no money. That doesn't require anything. Then they'd fully appreciate it and stop whining.

Yes, I think the way to handle illegal immigration is two fold. You both punish heavily the corporations who hire them, and deport the illegals. There are so many good people who want to come here legally, who have to go through loops and hurdles to be called "an American" that by just throwing your hands in the air and giving illegals amnesty, it's a slap in the face to those who came here legally and went through all the crap they had to go through to become an American citizen.

1/18/2006 6:19 PM  
Blogger tenxinchoden said...

hahah... very funny...
Thanks though...

i'll make it a point to write somethin'... actually a lot is goin on in my head but kindda confused from where to start and man! loads of things has happened... am like... "boy! wot's the rush?"... its kindda scary how life is gettin fast-forwarded... i think i prefer it nice&slow!!!!
well... thanks again'...

disappears again
lol.... kiddin'

1/18/2006 7:15 PM  
Blogger neal said...

I think that those who do whine and complain about this country need a dose or reality. There are still some who do appreciate America and don't need it. For the rest of them they do need to see what reality is like on the other side of the fence.

I can't stand seeing people like Sean Penn who travel overseas with bodyguards and all the money in the world then they come back talking trash about our country.

I got a chance to travel the world quite a bit and I truly appreciate the opportunity and the freedoms this country has to offer.

I have been to Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Kuwait, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Albania, Korea and the Philippines so I have seen cultures from both sides of the oceans and I have met both good and bad people from both. I have also seen how arrogance on the part of some Americans has fostered bad feelings. It is amazing to see how some of us will go to a foreign country and refuse to try and learn even a bit of the language of that country yet come back here and expect foreigners to speak perfect English. Talk about double standards.

We may be screwed up here but we still are alot better than a goodly portion of the world. Alot of the problem we face is due to, in my honest opinion, apathy. People are just too lazy to take the time to be informed or get involved in things that might make a difference.

I have a stack, and I mean a big stack of letters I have written to elected officials, news agencies and even celebrities about gripes and concerns I have. I keep them all plus the replies I get. I have voted in every election since 1976 and I will continue to do so until I die. It is not just my right it is my responsibility. I figure if you don't vote or actively take part in informing your elected official of what's on your mind then you have no right to complain about anything going on in this country. If you don't participate you are part of the problem.

I could go on and on about that but I won't waste your time...for now anyways....hehe

1/18/2006 7:23 PM  
Blogger The Zombieslayer said...

TC - Well, it's a pretty big deal, so I imagine a lot is going on your mind. Just let it flow.

Neal - Yeah, I have letters from a lot of Senators and Congressmen, plus letters from people running for Congress that I supported. Kept them all.

As for American tourists, I wrote a comedy post on pretending to be Canadian. I've cringed seeing American tourists in action and do impersonations in person about American tourists. Pretty embarrassed by some.

We have our faults, and our number one fault, which I agree with you, is apathy. We take way too much for granted.

You've done a lot of travel. I'm sure you'll have a lot of cool stories.

1/18/2006 9:28 PM  
Blogger neal said...

Some too cool to be printed on a G rated blog..

1/19/2006 3:18 AM  
Blogger The Zombieslayer said...

Neal - That's cool. We'll discuss them at the next bar-be-que in Chico. Come Spring, we start them back up and you and yours are definitely invited.

1/19/2006 8:06 AM  

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